Comments on: Debuggers considered harmful? http://collison.ie/blog/2007/10/debuggers-considered-harmful I hate self-referential taglines Fri, 30 Jul 2010 00:52:13 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2 By: Pádraig Brady http://collison.ie/blog/2007/10/debuggers-considered-harmful#comment-12921 Pádraig Brady Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:08:59 +0000 http://collison.ie/blog/2007/10/debuggers-considered-harmful#comment-12921 I completely agree with the usefulness of debuggers. I actually blogged about it lately: http://www.pixelbeat.org/programming/debugger/ I completely agree with the usefulness of debuggers. I actually blogged about it lately:
http://www.pixelbeat.org/programming/debugger/

]]> By: Mauricio Szabo http://collison.ie/blog/2007/10/debuggers-considered-harmful#comment-12394 Mauricio Szabo Wed, 18 Feb 2009 13:33:25 +0000 http://collison.ie/blog/2007/10/debuggers-considered-harmful#comment-12394 Well, my 2 cents: On Python Community, I expect this kind of behaviour (the One True Way) to appear more clearly. I switched to ruby because I really don't think there is only One True Way. What I think is: Be it on the language or on a gem, it IS interesting to have a debugger, so you can choose to use it or not. For GUI programming, for instance, I don't think of a clear way of using TDD to assert my codes are bug-free. Or, if I'm debugging someone's else code, or a C library... As Joe says, the more tools at my disposal, the happier I am. Well, my 2 cents: On Python Community, I expect this kind of behaviour (the One True Way) to appear more clearly. I switched to ruby because I really don’t think there is only One True Way.

What I think is: Be it on the language or on a gem, it IS interesting to have a debugger, so you can choose to use it or not. For GUI programming, for instance, I don’t think of a clear way of using TDD to assert my codes are bug-free. Or, if I’m debugging someone’s else code, or a C library…

As Joe says, the more tools at my disposal, the happier I am.

]]> By: Logan Capaldo http://collison.ie/blog/2007/10/debuggers-considered-harmful#comment-1917 Logan Capaldo Tue, 08 Apr 2008 02:20:56 +0000 http://collison.ie/blog/2007/10/debuggers-considered-harmful#comment-1917 Debuggers are bad because they discourage TDD. And you never ever have to maintain someone else's code either. Debuggers are bad because they discourage TDD. And you never ever have to maintain someone else’s code either.

]]> By: joe http://collison.ie/blog/2007/10/debuggers-considered-harmful#comment-1915 joe Mon, 07 Apr 2008 23:01:31 +0000 http://collison.ie/blog/2007/10/debuggers-considered-harmful#comment-1915 Given that I trust myself to neither murder nor code recklessly, I'll keep both my guns and my debuggers. The more tools at my disposal, the happier I am. Giles still hasn't addressed the main point of this article, which is the value of writing new code within the debugger. Can't blame him, I just got started with Squeak and I'm still trying to wrap my head around that one. Given that I trust myself to neither murder nor code recklessly, I’ll keep both my guns and my debuggers. The more tools at my disposal, the happier I am.

Giles still hasn’t addressed the main point of this article, which is the value of writing new code within the debugger. Can’t blame him, I just got started with Squeak and I’m still trying to wrap my head around that one.

]]> By: Alexander Botero-Lowry http://collison.ie/blog/2007/10/debuggers-considered-harmful#comment-1914 Alexander Botero-Lowry Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:27:51 +0000 http://collison.ie/blog/2007/10/debuggers-considered-harmful#comment-1914 One of the most interesting parts of your article, is your discussion of a debugger as a tool for rapid-development. This idea is very similar to something like SLIME for common lisp, which embeds the LISP runtime with which you're executing code into emacs, granted you have to use emacs, but it helps to speed up a multitude of development tasks. Something I do to make development easier is to embed a REPL into my python applications, so I can issue any code I want to the running application. I can use this to introspect on the various things in the system, and so forth. I would love to combine something like this with some way to browse the objects in the system more easily. One of the most interesting parts of your article, is your discussion of a debugger as a tool for rapid-development. This idea is very similar to something like SLIME for common lisp, which embeds the LISP runtime with which you’re executing code into emacs, granted you have to use emacs, but it helps to speed up a multitude of development tasks.

Something I do to make development easier is to embed a REPL into my python applications, so I can issue any code I want to the running application. I can use this to introspect on the various things in the system, and so forth. I would love to combine something like this with some way to browse the objects in the system more easily.

]]> By: Shanti Braford http://collison.ie/blog/2007/10/debuggers-considered-harmful#comment-371 Shanti Braford Sun, 18 Nov 2007 17:51:33 +0000 http://collison.ie/blog/2007/10/debuggers-considered-harmful#comment-371 Debuggers send to be more useful / helpful in environments that do not lend themselves to introspection in other ways. For example, I'm constantly using the rails' console to testing things out (in non-live code, but with access to my models). i.e. what's that space truncating function again, strip or truncate? how do I load a file into a string in a single line again? etc. then when it works in the console I pop it back over to my code and/or tests. But I just started developing in Flash recently, and man, do I miss my console. Firing up the debugger was at least a decent start. Debuggers send to be more useful / helpful in environments that do not lend themselves to introspection in other ways.

For example, I’m constantly using the rails’ console to testing things out (in non-live code, but with access to my models). i.e. what’s that space truncating function again, strip or truncate? how do I load a file into a string in a single line again? etc. then when it works in the console I pop it back over to my code and/or tests.

But I just started developing in Flash recently, and man, do I miss my console. Firing up the debugger was at least a decent start.

]]> By: credmp » Blog Archive » Debugging http://collison.ie/blog/2007/10/debuggers-considered-harmful#comment-156 credmp » Blog Archive » Debugging Sat, 20 Oct 2007 12:23:14 +0000 http://collison.ie/blog/2007/10/debuggers-considered-harmful#comment-156 [...] a result of the post, many people wrote counter posts (Giles names this one the most lucid: Patrick Collison, another one is by James Robertson). I personally find the responses not so bad though they are [...] […] a result of the post, many people wrote counter posts (Giles names this one the most lucid: Patrick Collison, another one is by James Robertson). I personally find the responses not so bad though they are […]

]]> By: Binary Code » Debugger Support Considered Far, Far Too Much http://collison.ie/blog/2007/10/debuggers-considered-harmful#comment-151 Binary Code » Debugger Support Considered Far, Far Too Much Fri, 19 Oct 2007 19:26:52 +0000 http://collison.ie/blog/2007/10/debuggers-considered-harmful#comment-151 [...] beseech everyone: please stop beating that horse. It’s dead. Pining for the fjord, fit for leather and glue [...] […] beseech everyone: please stop beating that horse. It’s dead. Pining for the fjord, fit for leather and glue […]

]]> By: Mike http://collison.ie/blog/2007/10/debuggers-considered-harmful#comment-150 Mike Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:10:09 +0000 http://collison.ie/blog/2007/10/debuggers-considered-harmful#comment-150 I once had a mentor who said that when you've dropped into the debugger, you've lost. And generally in my career I've found that this is true. I wouldn't want to give up completely on debuggers--very occasionally they are really helpful. But looking back I can see that almost all of the time I've spent debugging particular problems has been wasted. These days I only use a debugger an hour or two each year. I once had a mentor who said that when you’ve dropped into the debugger, you’ve lost. And generally in my career I’ve found that this is true.

I wouldn’t want to give up completely on debuggers–very occasionally they are really helpful. But looking back I can see that almost all of the time I’ve spent debugging particular problems has been wasted. These days I only use a debugger an hour or two each year.

]]> By: Rick DeNatale http://collison.ie/blog/2007/10/debuggers-considered-harmful#comment-147 Rick DeNatale Thu, 18 Oct 2007 21:44:18 +0000 http://collison.ie/blog/2007/10/debuggers-considered-harmful#comment-147 I agree. Good points about nomenclature. Thinking of the debugger as simply for finding bugs, is much like thinking of tests as simply afterthoughts. Good points on patterns and languages as well. For the other of my two cents on this particular topic see http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/articles/2007/10/18/true-confesssions I agree. Good points about nomenclature. Thinking of the debugger as simply for finding bugs, is much like thinking of tests as simply afterthoughts.

Good points on patterns and languages as well.

For the other of my two cents on this particular topic see
http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/articles/2007/10/18/true-confesssions

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